halyard winch on mast

[windfall]

Dear list,
I have been asked to help install a Lewmar ST40 winch on a Hall spar for a Saber 38. The owner has deck winches now but wants to add a new winch to the spar for the mainsail. He has asked me 1. How high up should the exit plate be cut in? 2. He had a stainless steel plate formed by Metal Mast Marine drilled for the winch base but curiously the end flanges are not bent symetrically. My ignorance is showing here but I think the plate is designed to be placed "off to one side" but I would like to hear your thoughts about this. 3. Is a line stopper needed before the winch?

Thanks,

Sam

[Brion Toss]

Hello,
Um. I truly want to be kind here, but you are asking some very fundamental questions about installing a very important piece of hardware. And the fact that you are asking those questions is a good thing, of course, but they cause me to wonder what questions you aren't asking. Questions like, "How high up do I place the winch?" "Does the halyard lead fair inside the mast?", or "Is this winch meant to go on port or starboard?", or "Will the stopper provide a good lead, in both planes, the winch?".
Tell you what, let's all see how many such questions we can come up with, to help insure that Sam gets through this with a happy client. Really, it's the kind of thing that could really make a difference. Meanwhile, I can say, in response to the questions you did ask, that the exit plate can be just a foot or two above the stopper, unless there are already other exits at the same height, on either side of the mast, in which case get up into clear air. The winch is likely meant to be mounted off-center, as the line will lead to its 3 o'clock side; if it is on the port side, which is what I'd recommend, 3 will be aft, and the winch will be crowded forward. A line stopper is most needed if other lines will come to the same winch. If none others, do, a cleat will do fine, though you might want to put in a fairlead above the winch, to prevent overrides.
Finally, I have a question of my own: 40 for a halyard winch on a 38-foot boat?
Fair leads,
Brion Toss

on this subject I am planning a similar instalation on a sabre 38 and offer the following comments. Hall Spars advised me that a st40 is appropriate for this mast howevr it does look a bit large to me. Winch will be mounted on the starbard side and Hall recomends mounting about 3" above the deck but above or below the boom gooseneck. In this case the main halyard is carried inside the mast and exits in the center of the starbard side. One further bit of advice from Hall is that the halyard exit must be 11-12 inches vertically from any other mast penatration (either side). While I havent actually mounted the winch, the mounting plate looks like its designed to mount to one side of the mast and at a bit of an angle to the halyard lead. I am a bit concerned however with Brion,s recomendation that the line clutch should be mounted close to the halyard exit, will that mounting position cause additional friction being so close to the exit point???

[Brian Duff]

I wonder why brion recommend an installation on the port side, throwing tradition out the window ?

decide where to cut your exit, like was said, about a foot from other exits vertically, and make sure that the halyard from the sheave up top to where you put the exit will not rub on the rootbars or other halyards. so that means likely to the aft half of the spar, if the halyard is running down behind the root bars. I would cut the exit in about 6-8' up if there are no other restictions.

a jammer is not needed if the winch is going to be dedicated to the main halyard, but the use of one will allow the winch to be used for other lines while the main is up, and I would reccomend installing a jammer. put it up near the exit, so that it can be reached conviently but leave enough room under the jammer so that the person raising the sail can reach up and get a good grab of line and get the sail up quick.

winch and jammer will have directions that should tell you what the maximum angles of deflection they will handle for the line leading in or out of the jammer and into the winch,

the winch should be mounted at a good height for getting leverage to crank on the handle, I like to use a height of around 32-34 inches, but that all depends on the owners preference.

how do you plan to mount the winch to the mast ?
why does he not just keep the deck winches ?


the line is going to doa bend around the upper part of the exit comming out of the spar, no matter what. as long as the jammer is low enough that the line just doesn't rub on the bottom of the exit too, then you have friction at its minimum, right ? Speaking of cutting exits, smoothe and taper the exit area becasue poorly cut exits can cut through a line on a nice day on the bay, in just hours, especially with streachy line.....

[windfall]

I wish to thank those members who have taken time to respond to my question. I have found the discussion helpful and will certianly look to see if more replys are offered. The boat owner has sailed with me on my Tartan 37, with mast mounted winches located pretty much as Brian Duff mentioned, and he has found halyard work easier than deck mounted winches. Note: His Saber 38 has halyard winches mounted aft and to the outside of the mast 3-4 feet from the base of the mast in about a 45 degree angle from centerline. He does not have halyard winches in the cabin top in the forward cockpit. I intend to mount the winch on a stainless plate formed for the job by a New England spar builder for this spar section and winch. I have information to keep a separation with plastic between the plate and the aluminium mast.
One detail I have seen on mast mounted winches is a downward cant of a few degrees presumably to prevent overrides, my winches are mounted square and do not override but since this is for a friend, would a wedge under the winch base be necessary?

Thanks, Sam

[Brian Duff]

I prefer bases that are angled as you have described, especially if there is enough height above the winch to the exit that a rigger will grab it on his way up. Override is a pain.