Triatic Stay

[Bruadar]

I own a 54 foot Bill Garden designed ketch. She is a Formosa 51, but their are many boat builders who produced this ketch - Hudson Force 50, Island Trader, etc.. Originally all these boats had wooden masts, ours have been replaced with aluminum by the previous owner. I have contacted many owners in researching the rigging on these boats and the placement of the triatic stay is not consistent. Many boats have the triatic at the top of the mizzen, some a few feet above the mizzen spreaders and one boat even has no triatic stay at all?

I would like to move the triatic stay on Bruadar from it's current (original?) position a few feet above the mizzen spreaders to the top of the mizzen mast. This would eliminate chafing on our mizzen staysail and provide us with clearance to fly a mule sail in light winds.

All of the original line drawings show the triatic attached to the position a few feet above the mizzen spreaders. I am not sure if these drawings are accurate and/or for wooden masts? Since our masts have been upgraded to aluminum and I am not sure if this changes anything?

A Two Part Question:

Part 1 - Moving the triatic? Could the triatic be moved to the top of the mizzen mast since the standing rigging used by the swept back spreaders terminates a few inches from the top? I assume that running backstays would be required?

Part 2 - Sprectra instead of wire? Would it make sense to use Spectra instead of Wire for the new triatic stay? This would eliminate some weight aloft and the need for insulators between the two masts. If Spectra was used for the triatic I would also consider running it down the mizzen mast so that I could adjust tension from the deck of the boat.

V/R,

Dan Pitman

[billknny]

Originally Posted by Bruadar

Part 2 - Sprectra instead of wire? Would it make sense to use Spectra instead of Wire for the new triatic stay? This would eliminate some weight aloft and the need for insulators between the two masts. If Spectra was used for the triatic I would also consider running it down the mizzen mast so that I could adjust tension from the deck of the boat.

V/R,

Dan Pitman

Dan,

I can't answer your questions, but maybe you can answer one of mine...

Years ago I tried to find out WHY my ketch had an insulator in the triatic stay. I got all kinds of crazy answers, related to antennas and other such silliness, but never a comment from anybody who had a good reason that left me comfortable that they really had an answer. Do you know why this is done?

Bill
PS: Yes, Brion, we KNOW they are REALLY spring stays, but if we use that word nobody knows what we are talking about.

[Brion Toss]

Yup, the title lists those vessels that can legitimately boast having triatics; people with ketches, looking for an excuse for saltiness, have long tried to pretend that they posessed something sexier than a springstay. The same people, as well as lots with only one mast, have tried to claim "whisker stays", when, without spreaders (whiskers) they actually just have plain old bowsprit shrouds. I may be fighting a losing battle here (don't get me started on "stays'l stays), but I am of the belief that, where possible, different things should have different names.
Anyway, to the questions. First, HM would be perfect for a springstay, much preferable to wire; the loads are trivial, there's no danger of chafe, and the reduction in weight aloft will be significant. Spectra would be okay, though for long-term Vectran, covered, would be more durable and wouldn't ever creep.
My favorite configuration involves installing a turning block in the top of the mast, then running the springstay inside, like a halyard. You can even belay it like one, though if you do you'll want an exaggerated failsafe setup, to prevent its being cast off accidentally. But it is good to be able to adjust it, particularly if you also have an adjuster on the main backstay. Which you should. But you could also just lash the springstay at the masthead.
As I understand it, the springstay makes a good antenna, given its height and angle, but it's best if the tuner is up on the mast. Anyway, an insulated backstay works just fine.
The most important question you had is about whether you could move the attachment point of the springstay, and the answer is, of course, "it depends". There are lots of ways to configure a mizzen's rigging, and the attachment point of the springstay must, must, must be integral to the design; you can't just move things around without considering the system as a whole. You might want to look at the chapter on mizzens in the Apprentice, to get an idea of how things can work well, as well as badly. The placement has to do with geometry, not what the masts are made of.
Fair leads,
Brion Toss
PS,
If you haven't seen the Falls of Clyde photo gallery on our home page, I urge you to take a look. Many pictures, giving a good feel for the scope and scale of the project.

[Bruadar]

Bill and Brion,

Thank you for your replies. I do not know if a line drawing of the rigging would help. This drawing is for a Force 50 with wooden masts but our vessel is rigged the same way.



The primary reason that I have been given for the springstay being insulated is lightning protection. The helm is located directly behind the mizzen and if lightning strikes the main it would not be transferred to the mizzen and this would protect the helmsman~?

Lightning is one of those controversial subjects and everyone has a different opinion. We use out insulated stay as our SSB antenna and it works quite nicely!

Thanks again,

Dan Pitman

[Bruadar]

Formosa 51 with springstay just above mizzen spreaders -



Formosa 51 with springstay at the top of the mizzen (also has staysail rigging and boom removed) -



Hope this helps,

Dan Pitman

[Brian Duff]

the answer is that as long as your main is stayed properly with its own backstays, the springstay can go masthead with no problems on that rig.

good luck....

[Bruadar]

Brian,

Thank you for the information. I hope to bring my vessel to your shop for a rigging review/consultation sometime within the next year.

v/r,

Dan

[gsindel]

hi everyone
I bought a CT 54 and got different question.
I just riggt a new forstay and try to put more tension on the forstay because my woodenmast have a back bend in the top quater even when the back and forstay is slack. Im not sure if it is desingned like this or just get like this after 35years of wrong rigg thightening. Aswell I have a very thick (proberly 3/4 inch!) wire triatic stay wich is fitted on the top of the mizzen with a turnbuckel at the mizzen end. To loosen that i nearly have to stand on the boatswainstuhl, so i dident do it yet, i dont work in the circus . After thightend the forstay I got a lot of vibration in the mizzen when winds go up to 20knt. Aswell I dont have a "spreader" (I dont no the exact word for it) in the bobstay what causes a small lift in the bowsprit. Im aswell thinking of installing a boom on the staysail.
O here some question:

1. does somebody got a drawing sailplan for the ct54 to see the origanall rigginplan?

2. How thik a wire triatic stay have to be?

3. How thight a triatic stay has to be? Vibration?

3. Do I need a bobstay "spreader", when yes, what is the angel between bobstay and forstay?

4. Does somebody have a link or tipps to install a boom for the inner staysail?


thx

[Brian Duff]

Where do you keep this boat ?

Pick up a copy of 'The Riggers Apprentice' by Brion Toss, as answers to all those questions are in there, I believe.

Also maybe a visit to the Formosa Owners Assoc. will help, the boats are rigged similar, and all have slight variations.

www.force50.org

[gsindel]

hello brian
Thats the problem, the boat is working in Tonga. The next rigger or supply store is 1200miles from here. Everthing I have to do by myself and everything has to be orderd oversea.
I will pick up a copy of the brian toss book and will work from there. So thx aswell for the link and if a rigger ever thinking of coming to tonga be my guest.
yves

www.seastar.to