Double Braid to Chain Splice?

[Evan_Gatehouse]

Hi,

I got a deal on some nylon double braid so I bought it - without considering how I would splice it to some anchor chain. I want to splice it so it will pass through the windlass gypsy. The rope is 5/8" and the chain is 5/16" if that matters.

I've NEVER seen a double braid to chain splice. Is it even possible?

Thanks in advance.

[benz]

It is possible to make a double-braid splice with a very tiny eye (I do it around shackles from time to time), but whether the 5/8 rope will fit through the last link in your chain is the big question. With three-stand, you don't have to ge the whole rope's diameter through the link, since you unlay the strands and push them though individually from opposite sides. If your double braid rope does fit through, you can just make a standard eye splice and see if it will fit through your gipsy. At the very worst you'll lose a few feet of rope if it doesn't fit and you have to cut the splice off.

[Renoir]

I've been using a double braid polyester-to-chain attachment for some time now and consider it superior to any nylon-to-chain splice and here's why: Polyester will not significantly stretch and abraid around the last link of a chain as will/can nylon. A small properly balanced eye splice (5/8" nylon will fit into a 3/8" BBB chain link) is stronger than a three-strand crown or other type of knot.

First carefully dress the zinc circumferentially where the splice will bear to make it smooth. Next cover the link there with a butterfly-cut sail mending tape (or anti-chafe tape) making it smooth with no winkles.

Next make a good tight-as-possible eye splice. I prefer to use about 20 ft of polyester to do this as it makes it easy to draw up both ends of the line when making the eye splices....short pieces may be more work to be easy, and any extra length of polyester is just fine...merely costs more than the nylon that you will attach for stretch and give under load.

Make an eye splice at the other end sufficiently large so as to pass the entire coil of nylon to which you will attach to the polyester. This polyester "interface" will give you the best worlds of both nylon and polyester just where you need them. Make an eye in the bitter end of the nylon rode only sufficiently large so as to accommodate the two diameters of polyester to which it attaches. Pass the polyester eye through the nylon eye then pass all of the nylon rode through the polyester eye and draw it up to make what looks like a square knot that is entirely balanced (as good a balance as the worst eye that you made...if you did a good job I doubt that if the rode fails it will NOT be at the joins of the nylon/polyester or the polyester/chain).

Each join should easily pass through the chain pipe from your windlass. As long as you keep a watch during retreival on the gypsy and wildcat (if you have both with a combo arrangement that good windlasses have) you will be able to easily control the wind-up where the joins pass over the various drums.

Keep a well secured small diameter line attached rearward of the windlass that allows you to clap on a one-handed prussic hitch or rolling hitch to the chain just when you have to stop and unwrap the rode from the wildcat drum and transfer the chain to the gypsy. The small line will temporarily take up the weight of the chain and anchor to let you make the transfer easily. All of this operation should take place inboard with no leaning over or through the pulpit if you arrange everything correctly.

[osteoderm]

Now I'm wanting to try a Shovel Splice in doublebraid myself, a testpiece just to see how it goes. As long as the core and cover stay balanced, and all the yarns are combed and divided equally, it ought to work. Still... messy.

How about a Double Shovel Splice? Like a wire-rope tailsplice; a tapered shovel from core to chain, then another tapered shovel from cover to chain further up. Okay, okay, I'm kinda kidding here...

Bah, give me trusty three-strand for this any day.

[Renoir]

The point of using double-braid polyester is so that there is minimal chafe and wear against the chain in the presence of mud, sand, strain, pressure against a drum or capstan, etc. No three-strand could be as trusty in this situation. The purpose of using 3-strand is not primarily ease of splicing it is for stretch under load to reduce shock loading against both the chain at one end and the boat gear at the other.

[osteoderm]

As a curmudgeon-in-traing traditionalist sorta fellow, I'm obliged to let forth a few "Bah"'s and "trusty three-strand"'s from time to time.

I'll agree with you that braided line suffers less from chafe, but no line is proof against it. Keeping that in mind, I'd rather go for less expense, dynamic stretch, and yes, ease of splicing with my "trusty three strand". I do not find chafe against a drum/capstan an issue, as I never "anchor by the windlass". I've put in more than a few 3-strand/chain longsplices, for both myself and others, and never had any troubles. The caveat being, of course, that any rope/chain splice, no matter what the material/technique, needs to be inspected frequently. If/when I find chafe, I simply chop off the splice and throw in another; granted, this is harder in used line, but not impossible, and is otherwise an excellent opportunity to capsize the rode and splice on the other end.
Of course, my preference is a reflection of my experience and skillset; while I can splice double-braid to my satisfaction given time and tools, I feel most comfortable and confident with three-strand, bare hands, and the spike on my hip (wax and whipping optional)... I have yet to see anyone splice doublebraid out on the 'sprit or aloft on a yard. Ah, still so much for me to learn...

I find your polyester/nylon/chain combo compelling. Properly applied, it seems to indeed exhibit "the best of both worlds". However, I personally prefer to avoid any extra splices/joins, as it has often been shown that it actually is at such places that line does fail, if it does.

Such discussion and comparison is the fruit of this forum. In the end, I suppose we can each choose amongst all the fine ideas and employ we we each feel most comfortable with. Indeed, sometimes there is no "best" idea, and solutions which appear ideal for one yachtsman may be ridiculous to another... I'm reminded of Bob Griffith, who was a great advocate of polypropylene/chain rodes; he compensated for the weaker line by using larger sizes, snubbed with nylon, and enjoyed using a line that was inclined to float free of bottom obstructions... a polypro rode doesn't appeal to me, but I'd find it hard to find fault with Bob Griffith generally, especially given the grounds he chose to cruise in.

[Renoir]

Haven't heard anyone mention him for decades. Because of his advice I've always carried some polyproplyene line in the case of coral or foul bottoms. I just would not want to leave my boat for long on such a rode because I don't trust my splices with it and know how intolerant the line is to chafe. I have used it in BC in some cases for stern lines to shore when the tide change is great and the line could otherwise catch on rocks.

I agree with you....love this forum yet am a little disappointed that the activity has dropped since changing the website design (over two, three years ago??).
Regards,
Rick

[osteoderm]

I had a chuckle at that! The last time I used polypro (outside of dinghy tow lines) was in just that case: a stern line in a tight Gulf Island anchorage..

[Renoir]

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...1&d=1148237656

If the above link works you can view and example of using polyester double-braid to "interface" between chain and three-strand nylon rode. The KONG S/S swivel was chosen to eliminate a shackle between the chain and anchor. That particular swivel can be removed and completely inspected. Most others cannot and, therefore, I cannot have confidence in what might have been going on with the innards.