Amsteel Halyard splice to shackle

[allene]

You have given me a lot to think about, thanks.

To describe my application more, the boat (built in 1955) is wood as is the mast so everything is external. The halyard is being flown off a spinnaker block and will fly an unhanked 150. We can't use spinnakers in our class but that is the only rule. The block is an antique, wood with bronze shiev. I would have replaced it but wasn't sure if I was going to use wire or rope and still not sure what I am doing is what I will end up with.

Anyway, the shackle I have is closed so I need to either put an open thimble, or as I was thinking, use the cover to allow me to not use a thimble at all. Maybe that isn't possible and I should buy a new shackle, I don't know.

I also want the cover for protection in case this halyard rubs against the headstay. This is a really unusual application and I am nervous about all aspects of it.

Perhaps I bought the wrong size LS. I will find out today when I try and make it all work.

Allen

[Brion Toss]

Hello,
Jeff had some good suggestions; I'll just add the possibility of a "Dutch Hat", which is a short piece of cover that the core is threaded through before splicing. The core goes in a couple of inches from one end, and out a couple of inches from the other. This results in a couple of little wings, hence the term.
If you also thread the core into a section of cover before splicing, you'll have a cover for the standing part near the end. Typically we'll pull on 4 to 6 feet, with the core going in about a foot from the standing part side, so you will have a tail to bury later.
When both pieces of cover are on, make your splice. Then slide the standing part cover up as far as practicable, then taper the ears a bit and lay them down and serve or whip or tape over them. Finally, bury the cover tail in the standing part.
Fair leads,
Brion Toss

[Brian Duff]

What I do is to install the cover on your core line where ever you want it with a short tail of cover hanging free toward the standing part of the line, as Brion said, to insert the cover into the core line as a termination of the covered section. Then just do the regular hi mod double briad splice, which is a core to core splice with the eye covered by ...cover. I normally upgrade the look of the splice by buring the tail of the cover from the eye inside the cover of the line creating a splice that looks very much like a double braid line splice. This does however weaken the spice by perhaps 8-10% (based on testing at Yale Cordage) but often the look is more important, and the safety factor high enough to tolerate this change.

Although it is common to not use thimbles for attaching shackles to halyards, or perhpas one could say it is uncommon to use a thimble here, there is a redution in halyard eye lifespan and ultimate strength from the tight radius the line must turn, much tighter than in any knot.

Have Fun !

[allene]

I think I get it. The Dutch Hat covers the eye with the wings laid down over the other piece of cover, all whipped together right at the base of the eye. If this isn't right, I don't get it.

I am thinking that treating the line like a Class II double braid like Brian suggested (and I mentioned) will be my first attempt with this as my fallback. I do have the issue that my cover may be a little large and I may try and bury the LS core inside the Amsteel core to bulk it up at the eye. If I can figure out how to have that add to the strength, that may be good as well.

Allen

Originally Posted by Brion Toss

Hello,
Jeff had some good suggestions; I'll just add the possibility of a "Dutch Hat", which is a short piece of cover that the core is threaded through before splicing. The core goes in a couple of inches from one end, and out a couple of inches from the other. This results in a couple of little wings, hence the term.
If you also thread the core into a section of cover before splicing, you'll have a cover for the standing part near the end. Typically we'll pull on 4 to 6 feet, with the core going in about a foot from the standing part side, so you will have a tail to bury later.
When both pieces of cover are on, make your splice. Then slide the standing part cover up as far as practicable, then taper the ears a bit and lay them down and serve or whip or tape over them. Finally, bury the cover tail in the standing part.
Fair leads,
Brion Toss

[allene]

I made a short section of the inter core of the LS, just enough to cover the length of the splice, then a few inches of taper on each end. I buried that inside the amsteel where the splice was going to be leaving about a foot of amsteel beyond that to be buried. This was all covered by the LS outer braid. I then tucked the amsteel inside itself through the outer LS cover and along side the inner braid tail. The amsteel was lock stitched at the point of the splice then everything buried inside the LS cover. What an absolute bitch to bury. Way too tight. If I had it to do over again, I would either leave out the inner core, or tail it off more quickly so that there wasn't so much mass at the splice. The other end of the LS cover wasn't such a problem. I buried it inside the amsteel. There was no way in hell to bury the LS cover at the splice so I wrapped everything and tied it off. It worked but took at least an hour to do. Net time I leave out the LS core and bury the LS cover long enough to add some strength from the cover. I think that is a better way to go.

Oh, at the point that the winch and cleat are, I covered the amsteel with the LS cover and buried the ends in the amsteel. That worked great with the 7/16 LS over the 1/4 amsteel.

Cheers,

Allen

[mrgnstrn]

Originally Posted by Brion Toss

Hello,
Jeff had some good suggestions; I'll just add the possibility of a "Dutch Hat", which is a short piece of cover that the core is threaded through before splicing. The core goes in a couple of inches from one end, and out a couple of inches from the other. This results in a couple of little wings, hence the term.
If you also thread the core into a section of cover before splicing, you'll have a cover for the standing part near the end. Typically we'll pull on 4 to 6 feet, with the core going in about a foot from the standing part side, so you will have a tail to bury later.
When both pieces of cover are on, make your splice. Then slide the standing part cover up as far as practicable, then taper the ears a bit and lay them down and serve or whip or tape over them. Finally, bury the cover tail in the standing part.
Fair leads,
Brion Toss

You gotta post a picture of this! Where in your book do you show us how to do this?

-KM