Oh My - what a drama - new swaging failure

[ribbony]

Not much progress has been made with the rigger. There is a very strong concensus out there that a 3rd pass is not a good idea, especially seen the rig is back on the vessel and a 3rd pass would be done cold, weeks after the first double pass. But, getting the manufacturer or the importer to state that in writing is proving a tough task. Putting words into writing is the support we would expect from them for a product that is engineered for load bearing applications. What we really need is for some hard copy of information that supports the idea that overworking the swage by multi passing it, is not a safe practice. With that we have a better chance of getting through the impasse that seems to exist at the moment.

Even if the riggers swaging machine gets repaired and another pass is attempted, will it come to spec on the third pass or is a fouth or more going to happen.

Thanks again for the feedback. Much appreciated.

[Asylum]

You should be able to go to sea with your new rigging without having any nagging doubts about whether the swages are going to crack or fail every time the breeze gets over 20 knots.

It seems to me that at this point the only way you can gain the confidence in your new rigging that you should have is to start over with another known-reliable rigger doing the swages properly.

I dunno about you mate but if it were me and I had the third pass done and had a few banana swages or anything that were less than perfect in the rigging I'd never achieve the peace and serenity that you ought to be able to. I'd be up on deck every 15 minutes with a magnifying glass and torch and I'd be thinking about die penetrant tests, etc. It's not worth it. Get it done right and then don't think about it any more. Get the rigger to compensate you for the wasted wire and fittings and his labor charge and start over. Talk to him and clearly express what you believe a fair settlement would be. Go to court if you have to. Don't worry about your wasted time, just get the job done right then do the installation again, it will be easier the second time :-)

I know you didn't ask for my advice and I apologise if you don't want it.

In my opinion one of the indispensable elements of safety at sea is having confidence in your boat. I try to ensure that my boat is always more seaworthy than I am. Anything that leads to less than full confidence should be fixed or changed. The potential consequences of structural failure are too serious to allow half-baked solutions.

[ribbony]

Go for it Asylum - your opinion is most welcome. If we did not want to hear the hard truth then we would not be here on Spartalk. There is no way we will be happy with a 3rd pass swaging for the sort of sailing we intend to do (Oz - Chile and return across the Tropics). I would have trusted the old rig more than this one, as it did not have cracks in anything after 15 years plus (pressed swages).

Just got to get the rigger to see the light. We have a "Fair Trading" dispute system here where the first step is mediation, then a Fair Trading tribunal if mediation does not work, just need the evidence to support my statements. I would hope that before going into that system, with some evidence the rigger will realise that we are very determined to pursue this to a balanced outcome. We want to be fair as well and have offered to do as much of the labour as we can (apart from swaging) as he will no doubt have a big workload, with the swaging machine having compromised not only our rig but unknown others as well.


You hit the nail on the head in your summary !

[Asylum]

Make sure you allow some time (plenty of time) to come south to Tasmania. Hobart and it's surrounds are a great cruising area - Southern summer is best as we're quit a way south.

If you do get to Hobart look me up - I'll send you my email address in a PM.

[ribbony]

As we are more like cold water cod than tropical fish, Tassie is very high on the hit list !

Email sent.

[ribbony]

The drama is now at an end. The rigger did the honorable thing and replaced the wire and hardware, refunded us the money we paid for swaging and off we went to get the new gear swaged elsewhere on a better swaging machine. This time we had them done in a overhead press by Joe Walsh, and he did a great job, all to spec and was friendly to deal with. In hindsight we wish we had done the extra driving 6 weeks ago.

Now I have to put the new stays on the mast (the old ones are currently back on to keep things upright).

Thanks for all the support and comments, they helped us pursue a safe outcome in this case. The importers appear to have also influenced the outcome in ensuring that their product was swaged on in an acceptable manner, it is not in their interest to have their name on components that may fail. The exact question that we asked to get their attention was: "Can the manufacturer of XYZ swaged fittings state, that swaging XYZ terminals by the process proposed by the rigger (detailed below) constitutes correct procedure for the manufacturing of sailboat rigging and that there is no compromise to the structural integrity of the rig as a result of such swaged joints that will affect the safe use of, service life of, or functioning of the rig".

The lessons we have learnt from this episode are:

1/ Have fittings "press" swaged in a big machine, rotary swaging may be possible in the USA, but nobody I asked knew of them being used here in Sydney. If roller swaging is done then make sure the machine is capable of achieving correct compression on the medium and heavy wires. If you are in Oz then be wary of the roller swage machines that originate in Perth. We had problems with swages done on 2 different versions of that roller swage machines in the hands of 2 different riggers. The opinion of some riggers here is that those RS machines are for smaller diameter swaging, but not the larger stuff (we had 5/16").

2/ Have the first swage checked in your presence to make sure it is to specification, don't assume anything, take some verniers and that will also show the rigger that you are checking on the quality of the work to be done. In the end it is your safety on the line.