Double-braid Eyesplice

[amkaplan]

Hi Brion,

I've got to redo a halyard eyesplice, as the eye chafed through at the shackle. I was working this with a friend with your book "Working Rope" at hand, and when we finished, realized that somewhere we screwed up and got a differential between the core and cover. We're going to start it over (when it's not so cold and wet outside!), but in the meantime, I've been doing research.

My confusion at this point lies between what appears to be between what you show in "Working Rope"' and my copy of "Complete Rigger's Apprentice" and methods I see elsewhere, such as Samson. Your version tucks the core back through the cover, and has the tapered cover tucked into the core with the end going the SAME direction as the core, and then snugging the whole thing up. The other way that I see others (including Samson, Yale) do it is to to tuck the cover into the core with the end going in the opposite direction to the core's, AWAY from its bitter end, then tucking the core into the cover and then snugging.

"Your" way
-your books
-NE Ropes: www.neropes.com/SPL_DoubleEyeSplice.aspx

The "other" way
-Samson: http://www.samsonrope.com/site_files...Splice_Rev.pdf
-Yale: http://www.yalecordage.com/html/pdf/...ust_dbraid.pdf
-http://www.swinginonastar.org/index_...dEyeSplice.htm
-VERY good video: http://www.latsandatts.tv/how-to-det...=20&cat=how_to

Can you please comment on these two methods for me (merits, differences, etc.)? I'm a bit confounded. I will say that the way you do it seems more intuitive to me, with less potential to get differences in core and cover lengths. Am I on track?

Thanks,

Allan Kaplan
S/V Aurora
Baba 40 Ketch
Seattle, WA
www.allankaplan.net/aurora/aurora.html

[amkaplan]

Any riggers reading this forum? I posted this item up here a week ago and even though more than 75 people have viewed it, I'm surprised I've gotten no responses.

C'mon, you guys!! Sailors without opinions!?!? Won't any of you weigh in?

[csandys]

I learned and have always done it with the Samson guide using Fid's. I've done about 10 splices without any problems. Just follow their guide.

[Clyde Jenkins]

There are a couple of issues here. One - is the splice strong enough? Two - was the splice easy to make given the tools and technique?

Brion has had his splices tested to failure and has data that shows the splice retains something close to 100% of the strength of the line. I don't know the actual number; you can get it from Brion. You can be assured that if the splice is properly done you will have a reliable splice.

Has the Samson method splice been tested in the same way? I don't know. You could contact Samson. They have a good reputation to maintain. Can you assume that their technique gives good results? That's your call.

I've tried both techniques and have settled on Brion's splicing wand and his instruction set. I find it far easier, even if I screw up and have to redo the splice. Measurements are easier. The tool (the wand) is easy to use, especially if you do you splice at a workbench with the wand in a vice. I've lost count of how many splices I've done but it's well over a hundred. I have never heard of a failure.

You might take a poll on this forum to see what tools and techniques splicers prefer.

[jeffh]

Hi Allan,
First of all, Brion's (core and cover) end technique is the same in function as Samson's, Yale etc., his methodology differs in that he developed the splice tucking in the core first into the cover then the cover into the core. Which is, in essence the same technique different sequence. Put another way "Different Ships Different Long Splices". Some of the instructions you've linked to have illustrations that more or less mirror image (core removed from top etc.) what Brion's illustrations show which may have led to some confusion.

I'd been doing splices in double braid for a long time (when only nylon was double braided), long enough to remember Samson's original "Red Book" instructions which were pretty sketchy, in the sense that they didn't call for much of a core bury below the throat of the eye. Made for an easy running home of the splice, strength of splice....not so much. Which found me "adjusting" the original Samson's measurements a bit. Marlow braid's instructions and their "adjustement" can be left to another time/another post.

This same "sort" of core and cover eye splice instruction can be found nowadays in the directions which come with a set of the "Swedish Fids", which, while I love the tools for certain applications (primarily recoring standard polyester/dacron double braid with hi tech cores for racing sailboat running rigging), I've thrown away the instructions.

15 Years ago or so I first discovered Brion's wand and overcame my "cover first" tucking lust. I found his measurements (& ratios of diameter to length of bury) easier and more intuitive to use than full-short-long-1/2 fid lengths etc.

Having said all of the above, I am in no way detracting from the instructions you link to, as they are perfectly acceptable and make for strong splices. I've used all of them and they're fine, I just pefer using Brion's and employing the wand, for the reasons stated above.

Hope this helps
jeff

[Brion Toss]

Hello,
I meant to answer this long ago, but am kind of glad I didn't, just for the chance to read all the nice things people have to say about my splicing technique. Seriously, it is good to know that all that fussing and thought might have been of benefit to some of you.
As for Mr. Kaplan's original question, yes, the structure is the same, and resulting strengths are typically upwards of 90%, if the splice is done correctly. Ours have some taper refinements that seem to result in more like 100%, but it's not a huge difference. The more important thing, I think, is in how easy it is to comprehend the splice from the instructions, and how mentally and physically easy it is to form the splice. That is where I've put most of my attention. By tucking the core first, for instance (a tip I learned from Jim McGrew), the eye is a recognizable thing sooner than if the cover is tucked first. Core-first also removes the need to secure the cover temporarily while tucking the core, so you save a step. And so on.
That said, some instructions speak more clearly to some people than to others. As long as you are burying appropriate amounts of core and cover, and as long as not too much struggle is involved, all is well.
Fair leads,
Brion Toss

[amkaplan]

Many thanks to Brion and the rest of you guys that chimed in on my little conundrum. As I said originally, the version that you (Brion) have shown seems to me to be the most intuitive, and as Jeff mentioned, I do appreciate the measurement refinements vs. using fid-lengths. As soon as the weather breaks again, I'll get back out there and finish up the splice.

Thanks again,

Allan