Samson XLS Extra T - What Splice?

[Smitty519]

I'm using 3/8" Samson XLS Extra T to replace the halyards on my Cal 28-2. The splices in the Samson splicing guide and Brion's book (Working Rope Volume 5) and Brion's DVD (Spectra) seem to be quite different.

Which splice would be best for halyards? I do have the 3/8" splicing wand as well as the Samson fids.

What's the minimum safe eye size for these splices in this materail? Samson's guide leaves out a lot of stuff. It seems to imply that the minimum eye size would be 5-1/2" to 6" in circumference. That seems a little big for a halyard eye.

In the Samson guide, they seem to imply that mark 1 and mark 2 will somehow magically penetrate the cover and show up on the core. Otherwise, how would they just appear there?

I would really appreciate any help with this. I really don't want to lose a halyard in 20+ kts . I'm new to these more or less high tech lines and I don't want to screw this up. My wife told me to just pay Defender to do the splices, but I'd like to do them myself. I have no idea how well they'd do. But, I'd rather not give her the chance to say "I told you so ..." .

-Smitty

[Brian Duff]

you should be able to do the splices yourself. use the plain polyester double braid splice. eye size is not related to load. for shackle i make the eye one long fid.

if you want 3/8" XLS to be ok in just 20 kts, just use a bowline - saves money on shackles too ???

[Smitty519]

Not XLS. XLS Extra T which Samson says needs a core to core splice as the strength is entirely in the core.

[matt the rigger]

That line needs to have a core dependent splice. It has a specrta\tecnora core.Unlike Mr. duff states, You should ALWAYS use a splice. A bowline cuts the working load in half. Where as a splice retains 99% of the lines strength.

[Smitty519]

I got that part. The question is which splice is more appropriate. As recommended and demonstrated by Brion or as detailed in the Samson Splicing Guide?

-Smitty

[trapp]

Extra-t is a MFP-Dyneema blend fiber core. Use Brion's instructions for a core to core splice they are easier to understand than Samson's. For 3/8" line you'll measure back 18" from the end for your 1st mark. Your 2nd mark will determine the size of your eye. When extracting the core at the 2nd mark you'll find a red yarn that runs parallel to the core. Cut it off and throw it away after you bunch the cover up against your belaying knot for balancing. It serves no purpose other than to identify that it's extra-t core. But if I were you I'd get 20' of line to pratice on before you tackle your new halyards. Extra-T can be a little snarky to splice. Good luck.
Tom

[Smitty519]

Thanks Tom. That's the answer I was looking for.

-Smitty

[Brian Duff]

stand corrected - i didn't read carefully, thought he was using plain double braid! oops


disaggree on the bowline. seldom are lines loaded to where the reduction on strength is an issue, and bowlines are easier to wrok with, lighter, and more reliable than many shaclkle, especially for a boat so small. of course, with all rigging, the hardware and lines need to be strong enough for the load always

[Bob Pingel]

There are several ropes in the world that are essentially dacron double braids, but mix in a little high mod to mitigate elasticity. In some cases the "core filler" is polypro versus dacron but that even "strengthens" my argument or question.

If you remove some dacron and add in some say spectra, do you automatically do a core-to-core? I know that a core-to-core in all dacron reduces the splice strength pretty dramatically.

Bottom line, dacron DB carries the load on both the core and cover, and a covered high mod carries the load largely on the core. If you start to mix in some filler material in the core, I assume that some material portion of the load moves back over to the cover.

So, just looking at a given rope and its component material, when do you switch from a double braid splice to a core-to-core?

Thanks,

Bob