Norsemans even badly done!

[knothead]

Originally Posted by Robbie.g

thanks chaps for the replies.
Silicone is not ideal as a sealant on mechanical fittings as many brands emit acetic acid on curing (they smell vinegary). This apparently is not that good on the stainless.
I belive stayloc stipulate 3M's 101, and norseman is 'polysulfide' caulk.
Regards

I've read the same thing about the acid in silicone. Do you have any idea if that continues to be an issue even after the material has cured?

Another question/thought I'd like to run by you, (not to hijack the thread) is about using sealants, caulks etc. in swages.
When I first started in business years ago, I had a habit of melting beeswax into the wire above the swage fittings and letting it seal the top.
Later, I began the practice of using different products on the wire before swaging. Such as locktite or 5200.
What are your thoughts about that?

[Robbie.g]

We generally swage 'dry' unless the wire was cut using a angle grinder, then we dip the cut end in lanacote, just on the off chance that the heat generated in the cutting has affected the "stainlessness" of the wire. Any how when pull tested there was no reduction in the strength when compared to a 'dry' swage. Don't know about any more complex caulks etc, as lanacote is only mineral + fish + wool oil mixed!
I think on just about any boating site there are people who have strong veiws in all directions.
My 2 cents is : Dry is the go, we should reallywork under the instructions of the people that make the swagers we use; and as far as i know that means 'dry'.
Cheers

[Brian Duff]

use the search on this website, just above and to the right a bit, and enter - swaging questions - check out the 3 page posting there.

We fill 'em up.

[Robbie.g]

Thanks brian, a very interesting thread. As i said we generally use lanacote in swages cut with a grinder, this is about 85% of our work. (this is mostly cos i'm a 60kg weakling, and can't just use my weight on the falco's to get through the wire).
I'm sure we're directed to use the lanacote over other substances, because of the extra cost and also the extra time for the clean up. Even a small splodge of lanacote on the end of the wire, most of it seems a to get squeezed out, so i guess if the lanacote's there then there's no air voids. We have never, as far as i know had a return on any swagework.
cheers

[knothead]

A very informative thread indeed.
I've spent many hours pondering all the questions addressed there.

It seems that there are those that agree that the corrosive characteristics of silicone are not of concern after the product has cured. Is that the consensus?

One thing that I have a little problem with is the conclusion that a rotary swager is superior to a good roller swager.

For my own boat, I would choose a swage done on a WireTeknic over a rotary.
There is no hollow area created at the end of the wire so you have that much more grip and much less trapped air. And as you know, they don't heat the fitting up nearly as much so I am assuming that they don't fatigue the metal as much.

Am I off base here?

[Robbie.g]

Not sure i've only experience using wireteknic (6mm+) or small roll swagers, (for less than 6mm). Maybe the collective fonts of knowledge out there will have the answer....

[Brion Toss]

Hello all,
First, yeah, silicone is only mildly acidic, barely enough to "blush" the surface metal. And that is only until it cures. But it's a moot point, as there are much better sealants out there, like 4000.
Next, wax does no good dripped into a finished swage, as anywhere it can go, water can get past it. Not much better to wax pre-swaging, as moisture will soon dissolve/displace it. But I'd be curious to hear about the details and protocols of the break tests with coated wires; Navtec did some a while back, and found significant loss of grip with at least some of the sealants they used.
As for the Wire-Tecnic, because the cams are not powered, as I understand it, they can have far larger, tougher bearings, and less distortion than conventional roll-swage machines. Done correctly they appear to be more fatigue-resistant than those machines, right up there with rotaries. I have never heard of heat being an issue with any swage; never seen a swage get so hot from forming that it might affect the metal's characteristics. Do you have some data on this? In any event I still prefer rotaries, if only for their smoothness...
Fair leads,
Brion Toss

[Russ L]

Originally Posted by knothead

A very informative thread indeed.
I've spent many hours pondering all the questions addressed there.

It seems that there are those that agree that the corrosive characteristics of silicone are not of concern after the product has cured. Is that the consensus?

For my own boat, I would choose a swage done on a WireTeknic over a rotary.
There is no hollow area created at the end of the wire so you have that much more grip and much less trapped air. And as you know, they don't heat the fitting up nearly as much so I am assuming that they don't fatigue the metal as much.

Am I off base here?

Hi Knothead,

I do not use silicone sealant very much anymore, but more from a "disappointed in overall performance" standpoint. I don't buy into the acetic acid causes corrosion argument. The industry I work at has 25 year old S/S 316 pipes (stick welded!) carrying 93% sulphuric acid and the leaks are at gaskets and non-316 alloys.
A bit o' acetic acid, that is less than a bag of Salt & Vinegar chips stuffed into the mouth, better not cause damage to our precious rigs!

Cheers, Russ

[knothead]

Thanks for the bone guys.