installing new rod rigging

[Brion Toss]

Hi again,
I vote for nothing. And you might be able to unscrew using the cotter hole. Give it a try first.
As for magnification, let's see what we can see with 20x.
Fair leads,
Brion Toss

[infinitysail]

Okay, here are some albums with high res photos of the rod heads. So far I have done two, but my assistant has fallen asleep....

For both, I cleaned them thoroughly. For the intermediate shroud, I left it bare. For the lower shroud, I colored it with sharpie, then wiped it aggressively with a clean dry cloth. The sharpie does seem to highlight the imperfections and pitting. Let me know if it is helpful or distracting.

The heads have some pitting, but no cracks that I can see. There are some marks that I assume are from the heading process. The screws also have pitting.

I guess the rust I now get is from the pitting. I don't know if this is problematic or simply cosmetic. Let me know what you think.

On reassembly, do I screw the screw in as far as it will go, or measure it to be the same distance as before (about 7/8" on all of them)?

As for the forestay, removing and rescrewing the bronze "nose" doesn't damage it, right?

Screws:
https://picasaweb.google.com/fflanne...6Iw&feat=email

Starboard Lower:
https://picasaweb.google.com/fflanne...-Zg&feat=email

Starboard intermediate:
https://picasaweb.google.com/fflanne...tcQ&feat=email

Frank

[Brion Toss]

Hi again,
Nice pictures. The resolution allows for further magnification without blurring. If you do that, you'll see short transverse cracks. Bad. That, plus the amount of pitting leads me to say that these should indeed be replaced.
Note that I've seen worse that haven't failed yet -- big transverse cracks, at the turn of the head -- but this looks more like the effects of prolonged corrosion, a bit too crumbly.
Joe, what say you?
Fair leads,
Brion Toss

[infinitysail]

That's a bummer, but better safe than sorry. We will order the new rigging and plan on doing it in the marina in place. If we run into problems, we can arrange to pull the stick without having to go anywhere.

Any interest in seeing the other rod heads? I haven't scoped them, but they look the same with the naked eye. No obvious major flaws, but some micro-pitting.

BTW, in case you are interested, this is what we used to magnify them. I thought it worked really well. It also has a 200x setting but the focal length becomes so short that it is impossible to use for this application:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Joe Henderson]

Frank,

I agree completely with Brion.

Far to many spongey areas and myriad cracks waiting to fly merrily apart despite much polishing - this, I think, is where the bleeding rust was comiing from.

The other horror is my favourite thing about rod heads, the evidence of worn out dies used beyond thier replacement date, Viz the uneven heads, the protruding flashes on the flanks of the heads where the mating faces have chipped and the machining marks on one side of some heads whre the loft probably made thier own replacement die after some clumsy unsupervised apprentice broke one half of the die set.

I know all about breaking dies in Navtec or other heading presses, I was that cocky and arrogant aprentice for about twenty minutes back in the seventies!

A short sharp lesson in my actual worth as opposed to my percieved worth with a side excursion into the market price and availability of dash 60 Navtec dies focussed my attention and helped an awful lot in assisting me in ongoing career decisions.

Talk to the loft doing the replacements, (do not be seduced by the cheapest quote , although it is quite possible that the best IS the cheapest, usually because they are the quickest and most professional about the whole deal, and do not mind investing in new sets of dies occasionally) mention that you expect properly formed heads, they will harrumph a bit and tell you that the ALWAYS form the heads properly, I hope they do, if they dont, squeal like a hog and demand replacements..

Having said that, these deformed and incomplete heads have not fallen off for a scrillion years.. .so what do I know.

Am I right in thinking you are going to replace the complete set, tangs, rod and turnbuckles?

If so, how about looking at the chainplates as well...Oh no! Pandoras box!

Good luck.

[infinitysail]

I removed the chainplates last spring to check them. One had some pitting, but I didn't think it was too bad. What is your opinion? The chainplates seem pretty oversized. They are 3/8" thick X 20" X 4.5" with 10 1/2" bolts holding them. There is one plate per side for the lowers and intermediates and one plate for the uppers. I filed into some of the pitting and it disappeared pretty quickly.

What do you think?
https://picasaweb.google.com/fflanne...WWw&feat=email

Also, did I understand you correctly that the best way to put in the spreader bend is to not prebend the shroud, but to put the bend fitting on the spreader end and simply tighten down the shroud while ensuring the spreader doesn't move up or down?

[Joe Henderson]

Frank,

You need to ask yourself the following question -

Assuming that a suitable frame and gear was available that loaded each chainplate equally, would I be happy to lift my boat on the athwartships chainplates?

If there is any doubt- replace your chainplates and bolts, easy to do at the dock...bloody hard to do halfway across an ocean.

They may have been sized correctly and installed right when the boat was built, but time and salt water take their tolls.

I think that pitting is a reason to replace.

Like-for-like will be fine, just make sure it IS like-for-like, see multiple threads re chainplates on here.


Spreader bends on Navtec rod need to be pre-bent in the correct position and plane and to the correct angle prior to installing. Otherwise you just get a thick walled tube loose around the rod and ready to slip.

Joe.