Sta-Set X eye splice problem

[whimsy]

I'm re-using what was an old halyard (sail raised likely under a dozen times, but on the mast 3~4 for years) where I need a fixed segment with an eye on each end.

This is 1/2" Sta-Set X. I've done my third of a total of eight splices so far, using Brion's splicing wand instead of the fid but otherwise New England Rope's instructions.

My first two went pretty well, although I'm not sure quite what "a lot of force to set it" really is...I finished them up with a 18-power secondary winch.

My third one doesn't seem right--Most of the tapered part of the core didn't go back inside the cover. But the crossover did go up into the core, and I can see enough of both marks to tell it didn't slip.

Since I'm re-using what I have rather than buying what I need, I've got rope that is twice as strong as I need for this purpose...so I am wondering what chance my splice is so bad as to have under 50% of the strength of the line.

Any thoughts (besides the reminder that old ropes are harder to splice)?

Thanks.

[Brion Toss]

Oh no you don't. The purpose of splicing is to attempt, at least, 100% efficiency. If less than that is acceptable, don't splice, tie a knot. A badly-done splice might be 50% efficient. Or more. Or less. If you are having difficulty splicing, it is not an opportunity to rationalize; it is an opportunity to learn to splice better.
If you are not in a hurry, and if you have some extra rope, send me a sample, along with the splice you are describing, and I'll offer some free advice. If you are on a schedule, try posting pictures here, okay?
Fair leads,
Brion Toss

[whimsy]

OK, Brion, you got me. I actually have two goals:

1. I want to make the lines I need for my new rig. They need to be strong enough, not perfect. (If I trust this splice enough, I don't need to re-do it for this purpose)

2. I do want to be better at splicing. And that is what I hope to get here on this board. I don't have time to send stuff to you, I'll describe what I've done as best I can here.

I've done two splices that seem "good" and one that seems "bad" I've also marked the rope for my 4th attempt. (I need to make 4 segments with an eye on each side, so 8 total splices)


I've marked them with black at the cover crossover, purple at the other side of the eye on the cover, and red on the cover where the core gets pulled out.

I made a red mark on the core at the crossover where the fabric tape ends, but that is pretty well buried along with the black cover mark in my splices.

The picture doesn't show it, but I can see that my crossover marks on the core and cover are aligned within ~1/8" on all my splices, and pulled within 1/8" of the cover entrance. The "bad" splice cover goes into the cover with 1/8~1/4" from one side to the other.

This next pic shows one of my splices before I tapered, taped, and pulled things home. I didn't keep track, but it is probably the 2nd splice (good), although it could be my 3rd (bad) splice.


Here is a detail shot of the eyes of the two "good" splices I did:

[whimsy]

(This forum limits pics, so here is the other part of my reply here)

I have two detailed shots of the "bad" splice, and here they are:


I struggled to get the cover tight over the core in the eye portion in all my splices, but felt like I did pretty well--it isn't quite as "hard" as the rope is undisturbed, but I can only work a tiny bit of slop around...I would guess that pulling 1/8"~1/4" of core into that portion would get rid of it, if that makes sense.

Following NE Ropes directions, after pulling the core out at the middle mark, I loosened the cover all the way up to my knot (doubled figure-eight leaving a loop easy to drop over a winch drum, etc.) and milked it back down before I marked the two points on the core.

I was surprised at how much "extra" core I had out after that process was done, but I figure if nothing was going to change, they wouldn't have included that step.

So...I'm still looking for suggestions on how to do my next set of splices with 100% strength, and also what I can do about trying to salvage what I've done, given that I can live with 50% strength if I trust it that way.

Also, I do intend to do throat whippings on all of my splices, I'm just waiting until I'm done splicing to get onto it.

[whimsy]

I'm still working at it...the rope I had has an extra end, so I started on splice #4.

I have yet to really apply force (I used my secondary 18X winch) to pull this one home, but I did milk the core down pretty well. The core tail is going away better than my 3rd splice, but not completely, and (I think) not as quickly as it did on my first two splices. I decided to take a break before I figured out if it was really messed up or not, and it was too late to fix it either way...so here is a picture in-progress.

[SV Papillon]

If you look at samson's double braid splice instructions for used line it accounts for the problem you are having. I don't have it on me but it basically adjusts your measurements to account for increased friction of a used jacket, it will not slide back down nicely like new line as you can see. Not a big deal at all I'm sure someone will come around to give you more specifics on how to adjust your measurement, I'll see if I can dig up the samson book.

FYI it doesn't matter how little a line was used, unless it was stored inside the UV alone will stiffen it up sufficiantly to give you a headache

Jake

[whimsy]

Jake,

I found the Samson old double-braid eye splice directions, and didn't get any good answers for myself from it.

1. It is for double braid rather than parallel core inside a braided cover (Samson doesn't make a product like Sta-Set X that I'm aware of).
2. When I compared it to their "normal" instructions, I didn't see a difference in the lengths/positions to use. I might try reading it again.

They did have some interesting suggestions, including getting the line wet. I did wash the line very thoroughly (in a bucket of fresh water with first some soap and many rinse cycles, using a (clean) plunger to force water through the line.

I'm still wondering what I'm doing wrong (if anything) and how to make better splices in this line.

[whimsy]

I've been re-reading the NE Ropes Sta-Set X eye splice instructions and finding a couple points that are unclear to me, and perhaps somebody here can help me understand them:

• In step 6 (milk the cover back to bury the crossover) they say to keep tension on the exposed core. Does this mean to keep tension on the core with the tapered cover taped over it that I'm pulling the cover over? Or does it mean keep tension on the other side of the eye with the core going inside the cover at the crossover? When I try to maintain tension, I find it impossible to do it on BOTH sides of the eye at once, so I have to pick one of them.
• When I milk the cover back over the core and the splice, there are two directions I can work, and the directions don't give me clear guidance--I can milk it back from the knot toward the splice, or I can milk it down from the crossover along the (soon-to-be) eye, and up the double part of the splice...which pulls the tapered core tail back inside the cover...which is the obvious flaw in my last two splices.
• In step 5, this comment confused me: "Note: It may not be possible to bury the cover tail on every rope. If it is not possible then cross stitch and whip the cover tail to the outside of rope after burying the core." I'm seeing a result like this in some of my splices, but it isn't the cover tail which refuses to bury--in my case, it is the core tail which refuses to bury. I could whip over the tapered core tail a foot back from the eye to cover this.

Can anybody help me figure this out?

[SV Papillon]

First thing the knot is only to keep the core and cover together in relation to the lay of the line, on the eye you are applying tension to one side when you milk everything back together , if you have a small eye with a thimble a good trick is to use some small line and do several hitches on one side of the eye and thimble. If you remove the thimble and pull on the eye one side will start to pull your splice out the other side will want to bury the splice this is the side you put you small line with hitches on secure the small line then put some tension at your knot pulling on it then start milking it away from the eye keep working from the eye down the line.


Jake

[Brion Toss]

Hi again,
Keep tenion on the side of the eye that has the exposed core, and begin running the slack in. As soon as you see the cover around the eye begin to bunch up, STOP, and tension that side of the eye. The slack will go away. Resume on the core side, then again on the cover side, until the splice is home. Have you seen my video on this subject? Why do I bother?
Fair leads,
Brion Toss

PS,
What is the application here? Ordinarily, Sta-Set-X doesn't require a thimble, and it's easier to run home without one.