Swaging questions

[arenyi]

I am going to order a new set of standing rig for my Bavaria 1060.
I plan to dismantle the shrouds one-by-one and order exactly the same length then the old (six years old) one. Is this correct, or the new shroud should be a bit shorter?
Is it necessary to fill the terminals (before the swaging) by silicon or other material to prevent corrosion? What is the recommended material?

[Bob Pingel]

Assuming your old rigging fits correctly (turnbuckles centered up when in tune) and was not overtuned (stretched), yes you would order the same length as the old.

It is recommended to fill swages with goo to keep the water out. I believe the correct goo is polysulfide caulk.

Bob Pingel

[Renoir]

In general, silicone "sealers" should be avoided on boats because there is no reason to expect silicions to adhere or remain adhered to surfaces, especially metals. Once silicon contaminates a surface it is extremely difficult to remove and REAL adhesives and sealants will thereafter NOT adhere at all!

Silicon can make good gasket material (if formulated as such) when mechanically confined and compressed between appropriate surfaces. Any other applications are, in general, better solved by other materials.

[Brion Toss]

Hello,
If, as Bob said, the old gang fits well when tuned, then you can duplicate the lengths. But in our shop, we also deduct for the constructional stretch of new wires. This won't be much ó maybe an eighth of an inch for your longest pieces ó but you might want to as well. See the "Apprentice" for details.
Next, if you measure the wires off the boat, there's no problem, as they will immediatel shrink to their unstressed length. But if you measure in place, from tang to chainplate, then you will also need to deduct for tuning stretch for the new pieces. Does this make sense?
Fair leads,
Brion Toss

[arenyi]

Thanks!
Practically I will not measure the rig: will dismantle the old shrouds one at a time, put it in the local rigger's workshop and order "the same" and check the new shrouds by compare with the olds.
Bob, please send me the commercial name and manufacturer of the polysulfide caulk.

Thanks again

A. Renyi

As swaging is the working of one metal onto and into the gaps of another, and relying on the metal to metal contact for strength-it amazes me that goo would be even considered. Have seen test results and any goo reduces the ultimate strength of the swage.
Stick to the old-timer method of beeswax melted into the swage AFTER swaging. Still the best way to go, all other methods are SCARY!

[Bob Pingel]

I would use polysulphide caulk -- like BoatLife. Dip the wire and swage away. It is important to keep water out.

Bob
.

[Bob Pingel]

By adding sealant unswaged, the sealant is pushed throughout the swage.

By dripping in wax, the "seal" is only on the the very top.


I haven't seen any studies where sealant impacted strength, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I deal with one of the best swagers in the country and they dip.

Bob

I have to interject here - I rigged here in San Francisco with a major boatyard, with a well respected rig shop, for several years - and - we NEVER dipped, sealed, or slathered anything on the wire before swaging - or afterwards. In regards to the "protection" of the inside of the swage with goo - after swaging there isn't really much of an "inside" to protect - if you cut apart a swage there shouldn't be much more than solid metal - maybe trace lines of the wire strands, but it's not like there are channels in there that are going to rust out on you. We also avoided and had our customers avoid putting anything on their standing rigging, swages, wire and all, becuase application of anything hastens the onset of stainless deterioration, which occurs in the absence of oxygen. In my humble experience, the best care for sawges was regular rinsing with fresh water and careful examination throughout the seasons - and a realistic expectation of how long it should all last. This is the opposite of galvanized mild steel, which you would want to wrap up and seal away in tar, yes. I think the best protection for stainless steel, though, is fresh water - lots of it.

[Bob Pingel]

The idea is too keep salt water out, I wouldn't worry about fresh water.

As far as the different opinions, I'll chalk it up to "differnt ships, different long splices".

Maybe Brion has some solid tech reasons. I do know that he has wire dipped before swaging, and uses sealant in StaLoks.

Bob