Norsemans even badly done!

[Robbie.g]

Thanks brian, a very interesting thread. As i said we generally use lanacote in swages cut with a grinder, this is about 85% of our work. (this is mostly cos i'm a 60kg weakling, and can't just use my weight on the falco's to get through the wire).
I'm sure we're directed to use the lanacote over other substances, because of the extra cost and also the extra time for the clean up. Even a small splodge of lanacote on the end of the wire, most of it seems a to get squeezed out, so i guess if the lanacote's there then there's no air voids. We have never, as far as i know had a return on any swagework.
cheers

[knothead]

A very informative thread indeed.
I've spent many hours pondering all the questions addressed there.

It seems that there are those that agree that the corrosive characteristics of silicone are not of concern after the product has cured. Is that the consensus?

One thing that I have a little problem with is the conclusion that a rotary swager is superior to a good roller swager.

For my own boat, I would choose a swage done on a WireTeknic over a rotary.
There is no hollow area created at the end of the wire so you have that much more grip and much less trapped air. And as you know, they don't heat the fitting up nearly as much so I am assuming that they don't fatigue the metal as much.

Am I off base here?

[Robbie.g]

Not sure i've only experience using wireteknic (6mm+) or small roll swagers, (for less than 6mm). Maybe the collective fonts of knowledge out there will have the answer....

[Brion Toss]

Hello all,
First, yeah, silicone is only mildly acidic, barely enough to "blush" the surface metal. And that is only until it cures. But it's a moot point, as there are much better sealants out there, like 4000.
Next, wax does no good dripped into a finished swage, as anywhere it can go, water can get past it. Not much better to wax pre-swaging, as moisture will soon dissolve/displace it. But I'd be curious to hear about the details and protocols of the break tests with coated wires; Navtec did some a while back, and found significant loss of grip with at least some of the sealants they used.
As for the Wire-Tecnic, because the cams are not powered, as I understand it, they can have far larger, tougher bearings, and less distortion than conventional roll-swage machines. Done correctly they appear to be more fatigue-resistant than those machines, right up there with rotaries. I have never heard of heat being an issue with any swage; never seen a swage get so hot from forming that it might affect the metal's characteristics. Do you have some data on this? In any event I still prefer rotaries, if only for their smoothness...
Fair leads,
Brion Toss

[knothead]

Originally Posted by Brion Toss

Hello all,
First, yeah, silicone is only mildly acidic, barely enough to "blush" the surface metal. And that is only until it cures. But it's a moot point, as there are much better sealants out there, like 4000.
Next, wax does no good dripped into a finished swage, as anywhere it can go, water can get past it. Not much better to wax pre-swaging, as moisture will soon dissolve/displace it. But I'd be curious to hear about the details and protocols of the break tests with coated wires; Navtec did some a while back, and found significant loss of grip with at least some of the sealants they used.
As for the Wire-Tecnic, because the cams are not powered, as I understand it, they can have far larger, tougher bearings, and less distortion than conventional roll-swage machines. Done correctly they appear to be more fatigue-resistant than those machines, right up there with rotaries. I have never heard of heat being an issue with any swage; never seen a swage get so hot from forming that it might affect the metal's characteristics. Do you have some data on this? In any event I still prefer rotaries, if only for their smoothness...
Fair leads,
Brion Toss

When I applied wax, I used a heat gun to thoroughly heat the wire and melt the wax into it. I agree that dripping it would be worse than usless.

I don't have any data on the effect of work hardening or metal fatigue as a result of using a rotary swager. I have just noticed that the fittings get a lot hotter and it made me conclude that it must be more traumatic on the fitting.
I think the main reason I like the WireTeknic better is the extra grip on the wire and the lack of the hollow area where the swage grows off the end of the wire using the rotary.

But whatdoIknowI'mjustarigger?

[Brian Duff]

if anything, the 'lack of grip' at the end of the swage makes for a less stressful transition from flexible cable to fixed swage sleeve.

The even manner in which a rotary swage is formed will lead to more even stresses in the fitting as well, as opposed to the ovals formed by all other machines.

oy

[knothead]

Originally Posted by Brian Duff

if anything, the 'lack of grip' at the end of the swage makes for a less stressful transition from flexible cable to fixed swage sleeve.

The even manner in which a rotary swage is formed will lead to more even stresses in the fitting as well, as opposed to the ovals formed by all other machines.

oy

I don't understand at all how having a hollow area between the end of the wire and the bottom of the hole bored into the end of the swage fitting specifically meant to accommodate said wire, makes a less stressful transition from the cable to the fitting.
In my opinion, any flexibility that the wire has, ceases about 1/4" (at the most) inside the open end of the fitting. It is pretty much a solid piece of steel from there to the end.

No disrespect intended, but as far as your last point goes. Unless you have some test results that back it up, that is pure speculation as well.

[Russ L]

Originally Posted by knothead

A very informative thread indeed.
I've spent many hours pondering all the questions addressed there.

It seems that there are those that agree that the corrosive characteristics of silicone are not of concern after the product has cured. Is that the consensus?

For my own boat, I would choose a swage done on a WireTeknic over a rotary.
There is no hollow area created at the end of the wire so you have that much more grip and much less trapped air. And as you know, they don't heat the fitting up nearly as much so I am assuming that they don't fatigue the metal as much.

Am I off base here?

Hi Knothead,

I do not use silicone sealant very much anymore, but more from a "disappointed in overall performance" standpoint. I don't buy into the acetic acid causes corrosion argument. The industry I work at has 25 year old S/S 316 pipes (stick welded!) carrying 93% sulphuric acid and the leaks are at gaskets and non-316 alloys.
A bit o' acetic acid, that is less than a bag of Salt & Vinegar chips stuffed into the mouth, better not cause damage to our precious rigs!

Cheers, Russ

[knothead]

Thanks for the bone guys.